S3E9 - Consent & Sport Squirting

In this episode, Jess (The Playful Domme), Lisa (The Poly Wife), and Ella (The Virgin) dive into the topic of consent, the importance of clear communication in intimate relationships, and the phenomenon of "sport squirting." Lisa shares a personal story of an encounter with a man she met through FetLife, where consent, boundaries, and communication played key roles in creating a fun and safe sexual experience. The conversation also covers how some men become obsessed with achieving a woman's orgasm, especially squirting, and the challenges that can arise when the focus shifts away from mutual pleasure. The trio discusses how important it is for women to communicate their needs and boundaries and the impact of clear consent in creating fulfilling experiences.

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🔥SHOW NOTES🔥

[00:00:00] - Introduction to the episode and Jess sets the stage for discussing consent and sport squirting.

[00:02:00] - Lisa shares her experience with a man she met through FetLife and the importance of setting boundaries before meeting in person.

[00:04:00] - Lisa discusses her decision not to have intercourse with the man initially and how they established mutual consent before engaging in sex.

[00:06:00] - Lisa recounts the intense sex they had, including the squirting experience, and how it became an obsession for the man.

[00:08:00] - Jess explains the concept of "sport squirting" and how it can become more about achieving a goal than focusing on mutual pleasure.

[00:10:00] - Ella shares her thoughts on sport squirting and the importance of focusing on connection rather than performance.

[00:12:00] - Discussion about how men can sometimes get too focused on achieving squirting and the emotional toll it can take on women if the focus is not on mutual pleasure.

[00:14:00] - Lisa reflects on how she gave feedback to the man, explaining that his focus on her squirting was detracting from their shared experience.

[00:16:00] - Jess and Lisa discuss how important it is for women to communicate their boundaries and desires clearly to avoid feeling pressured or used.

[00:18:00] - Closing thoughts on the importance of consent, communication, and slowing down in order to build a fulfilling sexual experience.

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🔥RESOURCES AND LINKS MENTIONED🔥

•  Daily Mail article (mentioned by Lisa)

• The Playful Podcast Website: www.theplayfulpodcast.com – For after-hours content, workshops, and community access.

•  FetLife: A platform for exploring kink and community connections.

• OMGYes: A platform where women share how they masturbate, offering educational insights into women’s pleasure and different techniques for

Transcript

Jess the Playful Domme: 0:12

Welcome to the playful Dom, the Poly Wife and the Virgin Podcast, where we share our most intimate stories, experiences, and details of our love lives, our intimacy lives, our play lives, and giving you the opportunity to gaze in and get a glimpse of what could be possible in your life as well. As we share our stories, our adventures, we weave in tips. tricks and techniques to help build your confidence, boost your courage and give you the opportunity to ask for what you want in your life. Welcome to the podcast. Hello everyone and welcome to the latest episode of the playful dom the poly wife and the version podcast three everyday women having Extraordinary experiences reclaiming their sexuality and play and power and all the fun ways Today lisa is sharing with us about an extraordinary chance meeting that she had with somebody special over the weekend, and it kind of had some magic sparks to it and led to some really cool awarenesses. So Lisa, take us from the top.

Lisa the Poly Wife: 1:20

Okay, so from the top, um, in truth, uh, he reached FetLife and said, Circumstances Uh, some unusual circumstances have me in town. Let me know if you'd like to get together. It's cold open, right? He's from the upper Midwest, about as much as I'm willing to say. So upper mid, we're going to call him the fiduciary. I don't have a name for him yet, but in this, in this instance, we'll call them the fiduciary. And, um, I said, ah, I'm not a, I'm not a, um, uh, pickup kind of girl. So, uh, I hope you have some fun and enjoy yourself. There are other women on here who will do a pickup play, but I'm not one of them. Have fun. And the next night I. The date that I had planned canceled on me and I wrote to him and I said, did you have fun last night? And he said, no, but I'm in town. Would you like to get together tonight? And I said, well, as long as you're clear that we're not having sex, that I I'll come hang out with you. Cause you know, I'll talk to anybody and I don't mind being out and having a drink. That would be fine, but I'm not. You know, I, I just don't do play like that. He's like, no, no problem. No pressure at all. No, whatever. And I was like, okay, I'll come out. And he was here with friends. And, um, uh, so when I, when we texted and we were about to meet, he says, let's pretend that you're. That we know each other and that I'm just we, we, we just by happenstance saw each other and it's like, okay, sure. Whatever. So we met and, um, he had been with them and he, he said, I don't drink and I'm on my second drink and it's too much. I'm over my limit on I've only had half of my second drink and I really need to get something to eat, which. Do you mind going to get something to eat? And I said, that's perfect. I had ordered a drink waiting for him at the bar. And I said, I don't drink either. So eating would be a really good thing for me. Right. So we went out to dinner, just a quick bite and. We instantly had chemistry, the chemistry was undeniable between us and immediately I just wanted to have my hands on him and he wanted to have his hands on my knees and on my arm. And so I was like, Okay, well I'm open for sexy time but we're not having, we're not having intercourse because I'm, I don't mind making out like school kids but, um, So we went back to his, the Airbnb where he was staying and, um, he excused himself from the friends and, uh, we started chatting and I said, I said, so I just want to be 100 percent clear that I'm on the table for whatever happens, but I'm not having intercourse with you. And he said, why not? And I said, Hmm, why not? And what I realized was that. I was slut shaming myself by, in any ordinary circumstance, why is it that it, I am so rigid in my desire to, even though I'm not looking for relationships, really, why would I deny just having fun with a person that feels normal? And I said, you know what? Okay. I'm, I said, honestly, it's because I don't have sex with people who do not have fresh panels because I am polyamorous and I'm putting too many people at risk so I can't, I'm not going to do it. He said, Oh my God, I can't believe you said that because I don't know how to bring that up in a conversation, which of course I do. Um, and I just had my panels three weeks ago and I haven't been with anybody and I'm, and I had the panels because we had a scare, but I am completely 100 percent clear. I don't have any prop. And I was like, Then I guess we're going to have sex and that'll be okay. Let's have sex. It was the best sex of my life. It was, I have no, we went for hours and hours and we couldn't stop. We couldn't get enough of each other. It was, uh, it was magnetic. And we were insatiable. And, um, it was going to be that one night. And I was like, yeah, call me when the next time you come in town. He had established that he comes to town regularly. And I said, call me the next time you're in town. And he ended up staying a second night. And that second night he invited me over and he said, I've got to see you again. Let's, can we make plans to get a weekend away somewhere, go somewhere so that all we have to focus on is just the two of us. And I thought, this is the thing that I've been waiting to hear from anybody that I'm dating. Right. So I said, okay, um, I'm not, I don't have any plans for Christmas. So we could do something for Christmas if we wanted to, excuse me. And, um, The third night Uh, his, his housing canceled on him, so he needed a place to stay. He said, I'd love to stay again. Can we just get a hotel room somewhere? And I was like, yeah, sure. But we could also just go to my house. He's not polyamorous at all. He came to my house and he said, is it okay? I said, yeah, let me just double check with my husband. Cause he's not feeling well, but he's going to be asleep when we get home. He's not going to get up or anything. So wait, let's just do it. He goes. Okay. So they did end up meeting. Both of them really liked each other. It was really, he was like, so he said that was a complete first for me for me to just walk in and like your husband got up and we were getting water. You're half naked, and we come out of the bedroom and you're, you're like, Hey, this is. Fiduciary, fiduciary, this is Ev. He's like, hey man, how you doing? Don't come near me because I'm sick, but it's really nice to meet you. You, you know, I'm so happy that you and Lisa were able to meet, right? So that night the, the fantastic sex was continuing, but he had never been with a woman who had squirted before. So he's, I had taken pads over the three previous two nights and I had a stock of pads by my bed because you know, I need them. And, um, he had, we had our, he had his hands on me for 10 minutes and we were standing up in the hallway between my bedroom and the bathroom and he just put his hands on my pussy and flooded the floor. Oh my God, look at that. We took pictures and got the mess and tried to get a little video because it was just. burning out of me because, oh my God, I've never seen anything like that. And I was like, I know this is fantastic. So we hopped in the shower, we went to dinner, we came back and we started playing again. And what I realized was we had gotten into a cycle. That he was so excited about making me squirt that that's what he wanted to keep doing. And that is something I have found with men who are not used to women who squirt. I call it sport squirting, like sport fishing. It's like, you get one, you throw it back. You get one, you throw it back. So this is sport squirting is like, they're really only after the goal of getting me to squirt. You're so good. And it's happening because I don't, and he, we're both of us are like, and I said, look, look, I have to be really careful about the squirting. Cause I was in the hospital, put me in the hospital last week cause I was dehydrated. So let's keep getting water in me. And, but the next morning I asked him if it was okay to give him some feedback. And I said, you know, this was, it's sports squirting and it's less about my developing and building my. erogenous feelings and getting me turned on and more getting my pussy to perform in a particular way that provides a product for you to feel, you know, really excited about. So, um, he was like, he was, he thanks me for the feedback and he got it. And, um, it is, it's true that. When it's new for a person to experience that kind, and you know, it's easy for me to squirt. I, there's nothing I can do about it anymore. But by the end of the evening, I was exhausted, and I wasn't deriving pleasure from it despite the fact that he was getting ejaculate from me, which looks like it's, um, Creating or I mean, it's not that it isn't an orgasm. It's an orgasm without the just what's the word I'm looking for. It's, it's an orgasm without the sexual right. It's just a physical reaction. To what is happening. It's, it's like a man will get erect, even if he's not attracted to a woman, if she's able to, you know, manipulate his penis in a particular way. Right. So I, I can, men can sport squirt with me and it's not fun for me. And I'm really proud of myself for, I like this guy and I'm proud of myself for being willing to give him the feedback. I needed to give him so that we could continue seeing each other because I don't want to repeat I don't want to repeat of that night because the other all three nights were magical. But there came a point where I was just my clit was exhausted from being manipulated to produce ejaculate, and I was what I literally wiped out. And yet, when I started to fall asleep he was sort of. Manip, you know, sort of massaging me and I was trying to teach him like a slow handed massage, but he was like poking me I got bruises on my arm somewhere right here because he was, you know, pressing on it trying to, you know, manipulate the muscles to, but it was keeping me awake. And then when we started playing again. He was an I'm going to say this in a way that sounds terrible, but it is my kink and it is very enjoyable for me. He was still erect and using my body to, um, satisfy his erection, which is a kink for me and I love it. But what I recognized in that moment was that because he wasn't trying to pleasure me. It gave me the opportunity to really get turned on by him enjoying himself with me without trying to get me to have an orga. It was so hot. It was really, really fun. And again, somehow it was three o'clock in the morning and, you know, we had a really great time. So that, um, usury is in the wheel of consent taking and allowing. So it's completely okay in that context. And it was a complete turn on for me. And I was so relieved that he didn't want me to orgasm, but there was a point at which I, you know, we were playing and he was trying to enter me. I was like, my pussy's cold. It's done. I can't, I can't do anymore. So, um, yeah, it was, it was really, it was, It was a great experience for both of us and, you know, we're going to see each other again next month, which is awesome too. So yeah, sports squirting. I thought that was, I'm thinking I'll copyright that or a patent.

Ella the Virgin: 13:17

Really good.

Jess the Playful Domme: 13:20

I can imagine guys coming in with pads over their shoulders, you know, about to come into a ring to make a woman squirt on command, you know, see how. How much they can share. Um, there's a few things I wanted to point out, but I wanted Ella to see what your reflections are.

Ella the Virgin: 13:38

Uh, I think it's, I think it's a great observation because I'm similar, you know, I'm, I'm sensitive enough and, and I can see where that can happen. It hasn't happened yet, but it's like, again, stop it. I love sports where I was chuckling, you know, and again, it's great to give the feedback. So. I understand.

Lisa the Poly Wife: 13:57

And I'm, I'm grateful to have the courage to give the feedback and I'm more grateful that he wanted it and he took it and didn't take it as a personal attack, right? He saw it in the spirit in which it was given that I want more, but we've got to be, we've got to tread lightly in this area and think about the eroticism, not the goal.

Ella the Virgin: 14:21

Yeah.

Jess the Playful Domme: 14:23

Yeah. There's a few things that, um, I want to rewind and touch on. And first is. I think you need to share the story about you passing out and where that may have stemmed from, just for our other listeners, including Ella, squirter too, so.

Lisa the Poly Wife: 14:46

Okay, so, and the likelihood that this story is Really true is grit is higher. The likelihood that it's true is higher because all of my other testing came back negative. So it wasn't a parasite. It wasn't salmonella. I didn't have food poisoning. I, it was, I was dehydrated because I was, um, with Jess and how many, how many events did we do? Did we do three?

Jess the Playful Domme: 15:20

I think we did like, yeah, three sessions.

Lisa the Poly Wife: 15:23

We did three or four sessions with men, three sessions, maybe with men, um, doing the pussy, um, master pussy worship masterclass. And then we decided that we would record an audio version of it. As we were just going to check it out and see how it worked as an audio and so I was coughing and clearing my throat over the course of the week's lead days leading up to it. So we were really clear that I needed to be absolutely quiet while we were doing audio which meant I was not giving any kind of feedback which I always I always talk during our master classes, because I'm the one giving feedback, so I was quiet and only receiving. for listening. For an entire hour, while, um, Jess was, uh, narrating the massage.

Jess the Playful Domme: 16:22

And doing, so I was doing it. And doing it, right. And narrating. Right. But also, I know that when Lisa gets really turned on, she starts giggling. So, and I know she, it's very hard to, it's very hard to be quiet, right? So, for many women, which is exciting.

Lisa the Poly Wife: 16:39

And for that hour, I was quiet. So, I was experiencing the pleasure, but it was building. It was building in me. So, at any rate, at the end of the recording, she said, do you want to release? And I said, yes, please. So for 10 minutes, she manipulated my pussy in a way that allowed me to release and squirt. And it was, it was,

Jess the Playful Domme: 17:03

it was so much of it. It was everywhere, it went over the pads, it went onto the floor, like, I mean, it was like, fucking, like, damn broke, and it was just everywhere. And Lisa, by the way, She's, she stayed with me for about a week. She was drinking copious amounts of water every day. I, I teased her about it, actually, because she, she bought like this. She went through an entire seven pound bag of ice in three days, and I'm like, who, who does this? Like, how are you drinking this much water? She was just constantly consuming, so this is important. That she was drinking so much water and she was, she was gushing, but we've come to, I don't know. Obviously none of us are scientists here, so a lot of this is just trial and error observation that she can orgasm a bunch, she can squirt a ton, so can Ella, and then you have to go get up and go pee. It's like, well, how is that possible, you know, but, but it is. And so there's like, I don't know if there's different areas of this. fluid is held in. I, I don't know enough about this. Does it probably doesn't take much to research this, but I liked having the mystery instead. So, so anyways, so Lisa,

Lisa the Poly Wife: 18:17

so I go home Tuesday night, I get home at night and, and, and we were busy enough and I, you know, pretty regular pot smoker. I wasn't smoking a lot of pot. I have a puff or two a day, which is before a session, just sort of relax. Cause you know, I've got strange men touching me and, um, I hadn't smoked very much. I had not eaten very much. We had really delicious meals, but, um, We just were grabbing a quick something. And on Thursday, I had, it turned out that I ended up having a head cold. And on Thursday, I stayed in bed, I think, because, um, I was, had the head cold, but by Thursday night, um, Ev found me passed out in the bathroom with a raging fever. And he threw me in the bathtub and poured cold water on me and got the, called the EMTs. And my hands had. Cramped into claws and I could not move my arms. I had trouble getting out of the bathtub because I couldn't like lift my elbow. I just had no movement. I was completely cramping up and EMTs put in a line and filled me with fluids and I would say probably about 20 minutes later. Um, I was able to move my fingers. I was conscious the whole time, even though Ev had found me passed out and I was able to answer the questions. I was oriented. Um, we got to the hospital and I had no potassium, no magnesium, um, but my heart rate was fine. My pulse oxygen was fine. My All of it was good, except for my potassium and magnesium. And they said, is it possible that you're dehydrated? And I said, I don't know. I drink so much water, but it wasn't, they released me that night. I went home, they gave me a prescription for potassium and I was talking to Jessica and I was like, I don't know. They said, I'm dehydrated. And we kind of realized maybe it was the loss of fluids over the course of the week from all of the. So I did actually put a PSA up on my FetLife profile saying, you know, just so that, you know, not only is it important to drink water, it's important to have electrolytes in your water in order for your body to be able to absorb it. So while I have been drinking less, Volume of water. It all has electrolytes in it. So, um, uh, and I had clearly no problem squirting copious amounts again soaking sheets soaking pads. Yeah, so it was, it was, it was a good lesson to realize that I was, um, Um, dehydrated despite the fact that I was drinking so much water. So I'm now I'm getting more tests on potassium and magnesium happening. So that's good too.

Jess the Playful Domme: 21:08

I think it's absolutely fascinating and, and in my head I'm like, okay, well whenever Lisa's traveling with me, whenever we do the pussy massage masterclasses. She's going to need to have electrolytes with her so she can replenish and, um, and it honestly is good anyways, because when the water, even if you add just a little bit of, um, Baltic sea salt, just a little bit, a tiny bit of Himalayan, the water will then go into the cells. So if you're just drinking water, all it's going to do is just flush through your system. It's not actually going to hydrate. That's what I've been reading. discovering over time. So anyway, so that's the PSA that was kind of there was like a prequel story that I wanted to touch on so that we're all on the same page. But the next piece I wanted to really touch on is slut shaming, self slut shaming, you know, and, you know, here we are, we're in our 40s, 50s, 60s, and up, you know, can we Put down that fear of the slut shaming and so for me I I experienced this a few years ago When I had the opportunity to have a night with this man at a retreat And it was a whole thing and I don't need to get into all the specifics of it But I remember speak like really debating and deliberating over it for almost like a week. And I was like, wow, am I going to become one of those girls? And like part of his, his little groupies or whatever it is. And you know, and all this stuff. And I just, I realized that I had come to a sacred sexuality retreat. I hadn't done anything with anybody. And I'm about to leave because I have this mantle of this like good girl, you know, I'm like, oh, you know, look at me. I'm so, you know, better than or, you know, whatever it is. And, you know, I'm, I'm so grateful that I leaned in and said, Yes, ended up being a life transforming experience for me. And so I'm very grateful for it. And I know that, you know, we've all discussed before about what is it? You know, what is it in us to like the difference between doing the being the good girl and being a good woman and being Someone who's true to herself, which is what virgin actually means in Latin virgin isn't The unchaste woman who's never been touched. The virgin is somebody who is true unto herself. So that to me is like the level of purity of connection with self. So Ella, I'm curious, as you were hearing Lisa share about the slut shaming, you know, that she was doing to herself and, you know, that question of like. You know, why am I not, you know, just having this experience with this person that I feel something about or feeling a connection with, you know, because of this, uh, stigma that I have in my mind about, oh, that makes me, um, a slut.

Ella the Virgin: 24:15

Yeah. And we, and we've talked about this, uh, this last summer, Jess and I talked a lot about it. Um, had an opportunity, um, while I was single to, Uh, you know, I met a great man, one that I would have chosen to be with. Um, but, you know, the reality is, is that he probably had, you know, women on every, at every stop. Um, him again, super charming, super likable guy, super handsome guy. And Jess and I had a long conversation about that, the good girl syndrome. You know, I'm a 55 year old woman. I'm not a virgin anymore. And we talked about creating our playground. And what did that look like? Because I didn't want to be another notch on the bedpost. Um, okay, fair enough, but just actually spoke with me further. And what else was that it was about being safe because I've had very few partners, and that's really important to me. So we were able to talk through it and we could have like created something that was fun, light, and safe environment. And I presented it to him. It was one of the biggest, um, moments I think probably in my life to have the, the courage to say, Hey, you know, here are my rules. And if you want to play, this is what it looks like. And, um, it was, it was super good. It never came to fruition, but I had the conversation. And, um, it felt great. It felt really, really good. And again, I can choose that. I can choose to go play as long as it's within, you know, my parameters. Um, and it was, so it feels really good. And I, and I've, I've had that opportunity to do it again. Um, I love it. I absolutely love it. Again, boundaries, you know, again, there's no intercourse, but if you, you know, we can do this, this, and this, and it's super free, super powerful. And, and no one said no, because I think we're worried about them saying, oh, well, hell no, I'm, you're not going to choose you or whatever. Um, no, that's not the case. So yeah, it's been, it's been super powerful for me.

Lisa the Poly Wife: 26:08

One of the things that I, part of the slut shaming started with Um, I don't know why, but I did an account accounting of the men that I have sex with this year.

Ella the Virgin: 26:22

Yeah,

Lisa the Poly Wife: 26:22

had sexual exposure to this year. And I don't know if the number is high or low, right. To me, I would have considered it a high number I had sexual. Intimacy, not necessarily intercourse with 16 men this year. Oh, it's for me. That's right. That is for me a high. It sounds like a high number. The truth is I was in long term relationships with more than half of them. Uh, like years. Orion, Luke.

Ella the Virgin: 27:03

Yeah. Yeah.

Lisa the Poly Wife: 27:04

You know, Hollywood, all of these guys who just happened to come, it was season right from December, from January to March, the men came. So there was a lot of them in a short period of time. I did a Bukkake scene at a party. So that added four men that would never have been in right. The men that I had sex with, I don't know. So let's say I had. Sex with six or seven new men this year. Um, some of them I've known a long time and we just never had sex and then some of them I, I had sex with. And then, uh, I, I'll, I'll figure out the numbers later. But, um, so I, I was shaming myself for putting another notch on the bedpost, right? It's like. But then, and I think of Luke. Luke is the one who's always in my ear because he is a slut. He loves having different experiences, he's incredibly careful, he's never had a problem, and he's a very proud ethical slut. And I'm actually reading the book, The Ethical Slut, now, and It is what made me say to myself, there is literally nothing wrong with having safe consensual sex with multiple people as often or as with as many different people as I choose. We have sex for pleasure and procreation, but some of us don't. Don't procreate. And so we're doing it purely for pleasure. Why would I deny myself pleasure? And then in the end, it really truly was a matter of testing. And I have a date on Friday with another, with a new man who's local. And I'm excited about it because this will be ongoing. We are looking for something regular. Uh, and I, I, every man I'm dating right now lives someplace else. So I am looking for somebody here. And, um. And so now I, so I've added one that was unexpected, and now I've got this guy who is expected, and I literally had four possible dates, this Luke was going to be in town, Kyron was going to be in town, this new guy was going to be in town, and, um, I was, this new guy was We had had a date and planned for it for this week. And then, um, I had a non sexual platonic date with an ex lover. And I was like, lucky me, look at me, all these women who struggle with dating. And I've had four dates with men who care about, really care about me. Um, or. Are interested in caring about me. And, um, why would I deny myself that? And so I've just realized that now my line in the sand is recent tests. If they have recent tests and can show me their results, I'm, I'm no longer going to slut shame myself because

Ella the Virgin: 29:54

I think for when I was talking to Jess, one of the things that we realized as well is that I have never had a one night stand and I don't want to have one. That's really important to me. You know, that's my, that's my talk, but Once I sleep with someone, then oftentimes I'll stay in a long term relationship for longer, way longer than I should. So, I mean, what's worse? You know, as long as you, you play, you set the playground again, safe, fun, and light. And you know that, and you choose that. Yeah. That seems so much better.

Lisa the Poly Wife: 30:28

It is so much better. And, and, and I'm in a few. groups of women on Facebook, Facebook groups. And the women are like, Oh no, I've got to wait until I know that he's committed. And then I'm going to give up, you know, have sex. And I keep now, I did, I send you guys the, um, the, the tick tock. I saw the woman who is doing, um, the rap poetry, whatever the slam poetry about this. She goes, I have sex on the first date because my pussy, I can give that away. I am not giving away my heart. And waste time with a man who cannot satisfy my pussy. If you, if you can't satisfy my pussy, I am not giving you my heart. So the test is, can you satisfy her? Cause if you can, then I'm willing to see you again. And I have, I may have to have sex with you two or three times before I'm willing to commit to a relationship because I would rather be in a relationship with a man who satisfies me in bed. Give him my heart, then give my heart to a man who can't get, who can't, who has no interest in sex, little interest in sex or horrible, interested in a different kind of sex. And now, so that has also some, that has also been a very informative, um. I'll send you to Tik TOK in our, in our, in our group and I'll post a link to it here, but it was, that was life changing for me too. And I,

Ella the Virgin: 31:52

and i, and I agree, I agree with you on that because now as I've progressed, I would say right in my, in my thinking and in my sensuality is I want to make sure that I have, my goal is to find as good a lover as I had or better. So it's about, this sounds really selfish, but it's about me. I mean, I, again, I know my hands are pretty good. Not as good as Jess, but they're pretty good. And you know, again, I'm super open. I mean, you, you guys have both seen me. I I'm, I think I'm in a really great spot. So it's about me. Will you come to me and will you satisfy me first instead of being the two pump Chuck, right. And just trying to get off. I don't want that anymore. And I want, and I, I look for, this is awful. I can't believe I'm gonna say it, but I look for like a certain cough now. I mean, I'm, no, I'm not I'm not, you know what you want. I know what I want. I know what I want. And so if we're okay there, then we can build from, you know, from there. There's a, there's probably a, probably kind of happens at the same time, but I don't wanna do it anymore. Well, I sleep with someone and I stay with them too long. You know, and again, it's, it's my soul that gets depleted. Um, I was worried that I couldn't find, you know, I wouldn't be able to find another lover, like, you know, my past one. And I think I'll be all right.

Lisa the Poly Wife: 33:03

I'm not going to say they're a dime a dozen, but here's a, here's a, here is. A word of caution, my puritanical thinking was going to keep me from having sex with a man who turns out to have been the best sex of my life and is treating me better than most of the men that I have dated in the last two years. Yeah, he's eager. He's interested. He's, he's, he's engaged. On a and completely accepting of my polyamory, completely accepting of my, um, full body central massage work. Um, and, and he was like, I have, I have, I have a, I have a, a business idea. He says, I could be your cock bunny. So he wants to now go on because he's never experienced. The oral that I provide in his life. And he said, women need to know. So we should go and have class. We have classes and I will be your cock bunny. He's got a very nice cock too.

Jess the Playful Domme: 34:10

That's awesome. So awesome. I love hearing that. Um, I can relate to you both actually. And I, I know. I 100 percent there's like guys I wanted to have sex with but I didn't want to just have sex because what would that mean? So then I would stay and I would date them and it was not right and then I'm staying longer than I should Because well, if I only stay two weeks that doesn't look right either. So now we're like at three to four months of time You know of like going through motions of something that doesn't really work out and the other thing that I was gonna say and Ella and I have talked about this Extensively, also, that her ex lover, his happy place was in bed, where he was best as a human was in bed. Outside of it, unless he had been having sex with Ella for 13 hours straight, which was probably the, that was when he had his like, permagrin for, you know, a day or so, but what starts to happen, and Ella has experienced this now two rounds with him, and she's done, she did it, you know. Is when there's such a shitty lover outside of the bedroom, that it starts to impact the quality and the desire in the bedroom and reaches a point where it doesn't matter how great you are in bed and how long you can be in it and all the things and all the orgasms. If you step out of there and he's not treating you well or vice versa, it, it becomes tainted and it becomes a place where. I mean, Allah, how did it feel for you toward the end?

Ella the Virgin: 36:00

Yeah, it felt horrible. I mean, it was, it was really bad. And I had someone that, that actually said it very well. And you, you did as well. It just hurt it the second time, but at the end of the day, there's 24 hours in a day. And if you have great sex, let's say five days a week, three hours a day, that's 15 hours out of. 40 or whatever it is more than that. I don't know. Uh, 12 times. It's a lot, right? So the majority of your I mean, it's just a small percentage of the time and it's super important that just your just your Your non sex time is just as fulfilling if not more fulfilling because again, I I with with your help I mean with the coaching and the things that we've worked on and the conversations that we've had for the last two and a half Years on this podcast i've become very open You know, I'm, I'm in tune with my body. I love it. You know, all these kinds of things I can guide. Um, so I feel like I have that really good with the right partner, but I, I need, I need that it goes beyond that. It goes, it's all day. It's every day. It's not just the hours in bed. So it was a huge, huge realization for me.

Jess the Playful Domme: 37:07

Yeah. And then what you've been able to do now, so we won't go into obviously the most, you know, deep details, but there's somebody you've known pretty much your whole life, who's been there for you through thick and thin. And you know, you, you were in a relationship ages ago. Yeah. And. He's, he's popped in and he's been able to provide you not intercourse, but he's been able to provide some, um, you know, nice, kind touch and care. And then you've been able to have a really enjoyable time outside of the bedroom, like, you know, and, and. You've been really clear about what things are and building the playground and we've talked about it like how much you don't want to hurt him or anybody get hurt and and I think it's a really beautiful thing because you're being intentional, you're being conscientious, you're being considerate, you're making the list of your desires of what your needs are about your boundaries. And here's the thing, like I and I can't stress this enough, ladies listening, is that if a man knows how he can play with you, He's going to play with you. And to me, it's like, if you put down the groundwork, if you lay down, if you build out the playground, which it's, it's just a umbrella term I started using back when I lived with Lisa four years ago, it's just, it's like, you talk about your, your boundaries, you talk about what you want, you talk about what you don't want, basically boundaries, you know, all these things. And you, when you enter into a place of consent, meaning it's like, Hey. This is Ella's playground. These are the, these are the, um, um, toys you can play on. Here are the ones you can't. You know, this is how long you can be there. This is how it is. And then they can have a yes or no. And if they're a yes, then they get to go in. And, just like in any sporting event, if they start going sideways, Well, you call him out, you throw a flag, and you say, like, sorry, you know, like, this is the boundary that I talked about. But because you've established it, then he doesn't mean to go back to you. Instead of, like, not being clear, and having this whole mystery, and this even happened, like, with the man that could have been something that nothing happened with, right? Yeah, I know, right? When he, he wasn't, he couldn't be a straight shooter in his conversation with you, and I'm like, how? It just sounds like there's a lot of. A lot of things up in the air, that doesn't feel good. It feels so much better to me. And I know, because I used to like, beat around the bush, and I would be kind of, um, not, I don't know, uh, I don't know what the word is, just not, it's very mysterious. Yeah, it just wasn't clear. And to Lisa's point about, you know, talking about sex health. You know, what you're going to do, what you're doing right now, what you're going to do. And I, you know, and, and this, it can be embarrassing and scary and like all the things and we flub up, but you clean it up. You're right. So, um, anyways, I just think it's awesome about what you're paving the way for, because I know one, just in our conversations, like you, you held this belief in your head that there's not going to be a better lover than him.

Ella the Virgin: 40:22

That's right.

Jess the Playful Domme: 40:23

And what. Was dying why your soul was dying was because he wasn't a good lover outside the bedroom

Ella the Virgin: 40:30

That's right,

Jess the Playful Domme: 40:31

which needs to be all day, right? We and we talked about this before is that intimacy starts the moment you wake up. That's when it begins It begins in the touches and then carrying throughout the day like women need that like that's that's what builds the desire, right? Yeah, that's right So

Ella the Virgin: 40:50

it's really good. And I'm glad you brought that up. Um, is that what I, you know, at the moment, right? Like, again, it goes back to the shaming and the one night stand and all this stuff and, and at the moment. And again, a very great, great, great, great, great friend for many, many years. I mean, one of the most important people in my life. And I, you know, again, I'm laying there and I'm like, okay, I have a choice here. Right. I could say no, thank you. Right. Or not yet or whatever. And I'm like, No, you know, again, the hands of an angel and, and they're, and Jess, they're similar to your hands where they're so kind and so gentle and not hurried, or there's no goal in mind, no goal in mind. And he, I mean, he's never been with anybody that squirted either so then I'm like, Oh my God, they either like it or they don't or whatever and it's like, Oh, you know, so anyway it's just, it was a beautiful moment still a beautiful moment I have amazing hope that there's Way better way better. And again, I'm not, it's not even that I'm looking for a long term relationship. I mean, I want him to be a friend of mine forever. That's the most important thing and not to get, not to get messy. Um, anyway, ah, amazing. I don't even know what to say. I'm glad I said yes. And I'm glad I built the playground, and he still knows what the playground is and we talked about it again. And he commented, he goes, wow, he goes, you're very direct and I'm like, yeah, I've learned to be very direct.

Lisa the Poly Wife: 42:13

Hallelujah. And it works. And that, that is the message to the women or men and women in our audience is that clear communication makes for great sex, right? Or great.

Ella the Virgin: 42:26

And there's this joke. Yeah. It's a joke. It's about me. I mean, I've learned what it feels like to feel so good. Right. And I've seen the reaction from previous partners on how excited they get when I get excited. I'm like, it's a joke. I'm like, it's about me. It's about me. If you want to play within my playground, go for it. I mean, you've only begun to touch the surface, but go, you know, let's do it. So, um, beautiful thing. Beautiful thing. Yeah. I don't have to worry about being controlled and manipulated and, you know, you can't do this. You can't, none of that. I got none of that because again, it's all about me. It's really not, but you get it.

Lisa the Poly Wife: 43:02

Yeah, I think maybe, um, next week we should actually talk about how to build the playground. Yeah, sure. Negotiation, right? And talk about it. And one of the ways that, um, Jess had put it to me is, Was it wasn't a playground. It was the country of Lisa. You know, if you're living in the land of Lisa, because I was having Orion, his wife, their grandchildren and the baby daddy live with me. And I was like, what the fuck am I going to do with kids around? I don't know how to handle kids. I don't know. And she says, well, just make the law of the land, like have a proclamation and write out all the constitutional rights that everybody has and what the law of the land is. And that's what I did. And, um, that was honestly when I started using that imagery, I may stumble over the words and how it is that I do communicate, but that Container was, um, the starting point of me started having those conversations and that was, you know, 2019. So I've been, and that was what I was doing with him, this, uh, fiduciary on over the weekend. I was saying, well, look what we're going to this, let me, let's talk about what our boundaries, he says, really, really meant that when you said we're not going to have intercourse. And I said, yeah, he says, okay, whatever you want to do, that's fine. And he was. Moving forward to saying was, I can't be comfortable playing with you if I'm not clear that you are clear that that is a hard no boundary for me. So I want to be absolutely sure that you say that. And that's when he asked me, well, why is that? And that's. When I actually took a look at it and said, there's incredible chemistry here. It's fun. What is my real issue? And honestly, for me, the real issue is safety for my other partners. Right. Right. I have a responsibility knowing that I was going to see Kyron and Luke possibly in the next week, which would not give me enough time for testing. I can't take a chance.

Ella the Virgin: 45:07

Yeah. That's right.

Jess the Playful Domme: 45:07

Which I want to, there's a distinction here and I really want the audience to get this that you weren't people pleasing and you didn't abandon yourself. So it wasn't that just because he wanted it and you had said no, it wasn't like he was And I'm going to talk to you a little bit more about that in just a second, but I want to talk to you a little bit more about how you came to be a therapist, and how you came The moment he found, like, a crack, he went into that crack, and he split it open. And so she ended up doing something that, you know, she and I were talking about. She's like, well, she let something happen, and she regretted it, and she didn't want it. And I, I was like, you know You shouldn't have had to say no. I was like, but you kept saying no. She's like, yeah, I said it like 20 times. I'm like, it shouldn't have had to be more than the first time. That's a reflection with him. So I'm, I'm saying this, that like Lisa, for you to be asked that question and you taking the time to self reflect. And be like, well, what, what is it? What is my hangup really about? And for you to decide that it was about safety and also about this, you know, puritanical self slut shaming that has been just totally infiltrated through throughout. And then for you to be able to make a conscious decision. And because you had the conversation before you engaged in intimacy, because once people get into a state of arousal, consent goes out the window. You can't consent when you're aroused. So for you to have the conversation beforehand, like I think people, there's something in our heads that we think that the conversation isn't sexy, and we don't want to have that unsexy conversation about sex or intimacy. I think it's super sexy. But the thing is, is that it actually is very sexy. And it's building this um, conversation and connection, and if people are being, you know, radically honest and transparent, you know, and And you can be on the same page. Well, that's part of that, that building the playground that you can then go and have like this amazing time. You know, and or not, I don't know, sometimes things go awry, but man, like the times I've had the, our BDSMA conversation, which we can talk about on the next, um, next podcast, I mean, I've had phenomenal experiences, phenomenal, because instead of, it's like you're walking up to a basketball court, you've never walked up to a basketball court, you've never walked up to basketball court before and you don't know how to play and there aren't any players and like, well, I think I do this and maybe we try that. It's a lot different than actually like showing up and like, okay, so, you know, these may people have the ball, you know, this is how you do, how you pass, how you shoot, you know, how you win, how you score points and stuff. So being able to go into it and for us to be able to define it for ourselves. And what a cool thing for a man, instead of him trying to figure it out. Or having to lead that we're able to say what we want and how we want it. And they're going to win. They have a higher chance of winning than trying to bumble around and figure it out on their own. So

Ella the Virgin: 48:28

I think the big thing too is, is it takes like many years. I mean, again, I'm going to, I use myself as an example. I mean, I've been, we've been talking about this stuff for two plus years now, and it's just now that I have the, um, I don't know, maybe the skills, maybe the courage, maybe the, um, I know what I want. I think, you know, and it's through the coaching. So I think it's always good to reach out and talk to somebody that can talk freely. I mean, Jess and Lisa, and even myself now, I mean, talk completely freely about this stuff, but it's, I think it takes time, but once you get there and believe in yourself, it's. It's literally life changing.

Lisa the Poly Wife: 49:06

I appreciate that. You're saying that it takes time, but I do want to have an asterisk next to that because you didn't have the opportunity. You were in a monogamous relationship for a majority of the two and a half years that we've been.

Ella the Virgin: 49:21

Exactly. Yeah, that's right.

Lisa the Poly Wife: 49:23

So I don't want to say it's taking you two and a half years to have the courage. It took you two years. To listen to all of this stuff, it took you months to do it because you needed to have the opportunity to have the conversation before you could have the conversation, but at least you had the tools to have the conversation

Ella the Virgin: 49:42

for sure. And there's been a lot of coaching. I mean, Jess has spent a lot of time, a lot of hours with me, you know, and if I get stuck. You know, I'm like, okay. So, you know, again, like the, you know, the one, the one gentleman that was on the road is like, okay, so how do I do this? And what do I, how do I say this? So we, we just, um, hours, you know, to build the confidence maybe, or to even figure out what I wanted. I think that was the biggest thing is that I wasn't clear in what I wanted. Yeah. I didn't allow myself to say, this is what I want. So it's been a huge, huge growth opportunity for me in, in personal business. Life.

Lisa the Poly Wife: 50:19

Well, I also want to say I want to sort of tag along to what justice says you can't have consent during sexy time. Um, that's 100 percent true and it's actually something I ended up explaining to him because when we were in the middle of having all of our fun sexy time. Um, I was explaining to him that I had gotten into a cock drunk state. Yeah, for sure. I was in a subspace and that I was in a, no longer in a position to consent, um, accountably because I was, I was high, not just, not from your, not from drugs or alcohol, but from sex. Yeah. And I said, this is, this is the moment when men and women. When women experience rape a lot of the time, because they may say, you know what, let's play, but I don't want to have sex. And then when they play and they get into that lovely, heady, delicious, sexy space, the guy asks again, is it okay if I enter you? Is it okay if we have sex? Do you mind if I put a condom on? The woman will say yes. Because she's in a pleasing state and not against her own will, but not in her right mind. And the morning later, the morning after, just like your friend just expressed, she got into a situation that she regrets. And that may, and, and In the case of several cases I know of that I am referencing this instance, um, they in the morning will say that was right because it was non consensual because I told you when we started playing that I didn't want to have intercourse and the guys like, but you had, but you said yes, and then you wanted it again in the morning, our, our cock drunkness. Or pussy drunkness, whatever it is, can last for hours, 24 hours. And we, this is why negotiation up front is important and why not only negotiating up front is important, clearly stating that renegotiating is not okay during sex. We only include everything we want to do, but while both of us are sober, sane, and, and, and aware of what it is that we want, and then we, we close the container, and we play inside that container, and we don't get to add anything. We can take stuff out, but we can't add anything, and I think that's a critical, critical, um, miscommunication that is common, and women do wake with regrets, and men wake up. Being accused of things that Are not in there. Um, we'll never would have occurred to them to believe that they had taken advantage or done something that was non consensual.

Jess the Playful Domme: 53:28

Yeah. And, you know, and this is also part of the growth and understanding and development in ourselves, you know, so even, you know, when I was with that, uh, That sex God, that young 22 year old sex God, those years ago, who is fantastic. And I had said like, I didn't want to have sex with him. And then there was a moment where I just, I changed my mind and like, so, and I own it, right? Like I own it. Um, and I opted for it and it was an incredible experience and I'm, I'm grateful for that, but there's still the having the onus on both sides and for him, he wanted 105 percent consent. It wasn't like 95 percent wasn't good enough. Like he needed like an absolute enthusiastic 100 percent full consent. Fuck yes. To doing something, which was really, um, that was eyeopening for me. And this was a guy who was just out of college, you know, but he, he, that was how important it was for him, which really left a, um, a mark for me. So I just think that, I mean, we're, we're getting to, I mean, I, I would, I hope so much that there's women of all ages listening to this, you know, and men too, and for men to encourage women to have. The conversation and also if, and this might take a little bit of, um, boldness, but if the, if the woman isn't able to be clear about what she wants. Or what she doesn't want to like then move like super slow and start building something like okay Well, how about we try this and this and this and see what you feel and like move make movement towards it instead of it Being like this kind of like free for all. I don't know. That's just something that's popping up in my head right now Yeah but I just think that there's such an opportunity for women to get clear about what they want and Feeling brave enough to stand for what they want instead of it being about the other person's pleasure and and having fun and going from there. So Anyways, what an awesome awesome podcast. Thank you so much Lisa for sharing your personal journey. It's it's really I know LSS, how refreshing it is, you know, that we're able to talk about these things and, and bring it to light and, and dissect it and also celebrate. So I celebrate you having the courage to, you know, offer feedback and, you know, for you also having the opportunity to sit and reflect on, you know, the slut shaming and like, you know, all these things and, and also to be. Willing to, uh, you know, show and share like both your gifts and also, you know, all of the things about who you are. So, so I really want to honor that. And I also want to honor Ella for her growth and, and everything that she's been doing because. I mean, as much as I also wonder if we hadn't been having these conversations last couple years, if you'd still be with your ex partner and being like, well, this is probably the best it's going to be and yeah, best I can do, this might be as good as it gets. And I'm settling and, and none of that's true. So I'm really, really proud of you for doing that work. It's what makes it way more fun, y'all. And I'm sure we will all hear as we hear from our audience members too, about how these conversations of us sharing and showing things are super vulnerable, right? And like really intimate and that we're, you know, happy to, you know, put, put out there because. You know, we, we want people to be able to have happy, happy lives and going for what they want. So,

Lisa the Poly Wife: 57:24

and I appreciate you acknowledging it's vulnerable because even though I overcame my slut shaming, I still have to face our audience's slut shaming because there's still going to be people who will say, Oh my God, she had sex with 16 men in one year. Holy crap. What a slut. What a whore. And it's not called a whore tour for nothing. And the truth is, uh, the, uh, I would say Probably of the 16, if there, if it was, if the number is actually 16, there are two of them that were one night stands. They're just, those just don't really exist in my life at all. So, um, I am usually pretty careful, but you know, in one case, the sex. Just wasn't great. And the second case, um, they closed their marriage because of me. Sex was so great that they ended up not being, not continuing their non monogamy after his encounter with me. So, um, different reasons, but you know, I, he and I would have seen each other again if, um, if we were allowed to, but vetoes, so

Jess the Playful Domme: 58:36

that's right. Well, I let any final thoughts or anything.

Ella the Virgin: 58:41

No, I just, I would just, I think say to our listeners is, um, I guess do the work, reach out, ask, because again, I'm in the best spot that I've been in, well, probably my whole 55 years and it's only going to get better. So it works. It works. So, and it's, it's a beautiful spot. I mean, I just, I love it. I love where my body is at 55. I love where my mind is. You know, it's just, it's, I feel amazing

Jess the Playful Domme: 59:10

and to, to credit you, Ella is, you're also recognizing how important a soul connection is and being with a soulful person, having soulful experiences and, and as, and going back to the power of contrast. So you've spent time in the presence of. Of several men, even just platonically. Right. And at least it has as well. And it becomes like this, like, okay, well, I really liked that. I didn't enjoy that. And, you know, we get to see the contrast. So even when you shared the other day about this really lovely weekend, you had outdoors and just how happy you were and how much that was in contrast to. Your, you know, ex partner who just wasn't like that and and how much that lit you up. So it's so fun to like have that and and I'm again I can't say enough of how how proud I am that you You're going out having these moments and experiences and awarenesses and you're paying attention and, Oh, I like this and, um, you know, I couldn't really do without that. All right. You know, and you get to tweak and tinker, but then to your point, it, it is about you. Yeah. It is about you because when you are lit up, fueled up, fed, well nourished, all those things, who you then shine out as in the world and how that touches your friends and the people in your life and the business and your, you know, your kids, family, everything gets that much more from you like that happiness, that joy, because you've been really clear about what you want. Super, super cool.

Ella the Virgin: 1:00:58

Been a great journey. That's all I can say. And I has, again, I credit you guys for that, so I never know. I mean, where do you, where do you go to get this stuff? You don't.

Lisa the Poly Wife: 1:01:06

Well, you come here. I'm here. Follow up.

Ella the Virgin: 1:01:08

I'm here. That's right.

Lisa the Poly Wife: 1:01:10

And I just as a side note, um, I've been interviewed by a reporter for, um, uh, UA UK based reporter. So my story of polyamory and, um, my lifestyle is getting rid. Getting written up and is going to be sold to the sun or the Daily Mirror. So it's kind of exciting. And one of my friends, um, the first TikToker, uh, content creator that I knew was written up in Newsweek last week. So, um, her article and I, in the article, she announces that she's, she's been married for 20 years. They've been polyamorous their entire marriage, and now she's engaged to her boyfriend. So they won't have an official wedding, but they are. Making a life commitment to each other. And they're sharing that news on Newsweek, which was really fascinating. And we'll, I'll remember to put a link to that article in here in our show notes as well.

Jess the Playful Domme: 1:02:09

Cool. Awesome. Happy times ahead for all. Thank you all so much for listening. Come and check us out on our website and we'll catch you on the next episode. Bye for now. Want more? Head over to the playfulpodcast. com for all the juicy things we have to offer. From there you can join our community where you can get access to after hours, attend upcoming workshops and events, and even book a session. Bye for now.